The Consequence of Caring for Others

Whether you care for someone you love or you do it as a profession, we’ve faced some of our greatest challenges in this pandemic.

As caregivers, we often forget about our own health.

This episode is just for you, caregivers! We chat with Registered Psychologist Liane about self-care and caregiver burnout.



Liane, Nicki Kirlin, Jenna Fortinski

Nicki Kirlin  00:00

Welcome to another and our newest episode of The simply Jenna podcast.

Jenna Fortinski  00:06

So exciting. It’s been a while. It’s been a long time,

Nicki Kirlin  00:10

we’ve been very busy having some very interesting, unique, incredible conversations with folks through our breaking the stigma miniseries. So we’re excited to be back and to provide you with another episode of our regularly scheduled programming. Yeah. With the podcast, and this time, actually, it’s a bit of a special one because we had the honor to chat with the marvelous, wonderful, fantastic,

Jenna Fortinski  00:41

Liane Yes. Yeah. So, so happy that she was able to join us for this topic of self care and caregiver burnout. And so Liane, I had met Liane, when I was working for Alberta Health Services, prior to starting in private practice. And to say that Liane is a master of her craft, it just doesn’t give enough credit to what she does. And actually, she is just truly incredible at what she does. She’s also a psychologist, and she is just somebody that has always stood out to me in terms of how well how good of a job she does, and how much of a natural she is. So she truly has some unbelievable gifts. And we were so fortunate that she had agreed to join us for this conversation. It just it. It was an unbelievable conversation. And we’re so excited for all of you to hear it.

Nicki Kirlin  01:42

Yes, definitely.

Jenna Fortinski  01:43

So without further ado, here we go.

Nicki Kirlin  01:47

Awesome. Okay. Thank you, Liane, for joining us for this episode. We’re so excited to have you here. Yes. So tell us a little bit about yourself. So your what you do, where your hometown is, and maybe a fun fact.

Liane  02:00

Well, thank you, I’m really excited to be here. I live on an acreage actually between oxytocin high river, and probably for the last 23 years, I run a private practice. I am a psychologist. And in my private practice, I do a lot of individual mostly family and couples work, which I really love. Because I get to do the more the direct work, which is really important to me, as I’ve been working for Alberta Health Services for about 16 years now. As I would say, probably the last 10 actually know what’s more than that. It’s about 12 years now that I’ve been working as a clinical supervisor, and Currently I work at a hospital for in an outpatient services as a clinical supervisor. So I oversee the clinical work and do a lot of training. There’s and lots of teamwork. And a fun fact about me probably is probably my team struggles with it. Sometimes I really enjoy change, okay, and tend to be very experiential and kind of work on the fly. Yeah. Quite adventurous. I would say. That’s who I am.

Nicki Kirlin  03:15

Yeah, just great. But yes. You know, always as an employee, you’re always kind of nervous. Nervous about that. Right? Yeah, I have somebody who’s a team leader. That’s, you know, that is fun and outgoing. And yeah, it makes me nervous sometimes. Yeah. I just think it’s fun. Yeah, that’s excellent. Yes. So you’re busy then which is, which is awesome. So good for you. Okay, so to today’s episode, we’re going to be talking a little bit about, obviously, on our theme of breaking the stigma, but we’re going to be focusing on the stigma around mental health for mental health professionals. Yeah. So we wanted to start out by Tara by talking about an understanding of this term around compassion, fatigue or burnout, we hear a lot about burnout, and especially nowadays, it’s very relevant for mental health professionals to be having this conversation about burnout and compassion fatigue. So can you define for us? What does that mean? What does compassion fatigue mean? Or burnout?

Liane  04:15

You know, when I think about that, I think most of us actually, were carers. Right. So, you know, that, to me, encompass, encompasses compassion. And I think that in particularly, when I think back in my earlier years, for sure, more, you know, more so when I was a novice, I really felt that, you know, almost my calling was always to be a helper. Right. And I thought being held, you know, really being, you know, helpful and, and, you know, working with people was almost sort of jumping in to probably their worlds. And what I realized, though, is I was taking on a lot of that, right, and probably not the most boundaried with it, and probably again, because it was so new. So I think the fatigue in my earlier years would have been not being boundaried in that area. So I think that leads to burnout. Yeah, just because, you know, you, you know, you’re more exhausted, you go home with the, you know, all these thoughts on your mind, and, you know, hoping that you could even do more. And then throughout, you know, as I started understanding more and, and, you know, learning how to be, I think, a better helper, I understood that there really had to be, you know, more of sort of more of a, rather than jumping in, it was more of a walking myth. Okay. And still understanding, you know, where the person was coming from Sue, and really relating, you know, in lots of ways. But with having some objectivity. Okay. So I can understand how you would end up sort of maybe crossing that particular line, right. Yeah. So it’s something I continue to work on. But for sure, in my first couple of years, that was something that I fell into, for sure.

Jenna Fortinski  06:24

Definitely, it’s definitely an easy trap to fall into Yeah, for all new mental health professionals is likely and had said this, this taking on of what we’re hearing in session. And so it does lead to a quick sense of exhaustion and feeling like, you know, you are living what the what you’re talking about with these people. And so an important part of that, I think, as a professional is developing some sort of self care routine. So what would you say? Like, what’s your definition, Liane, of what self care is?

Liane  06:59

Yeah, you know, and, and I, you know, I run caregiver groups. And often, you know, you know, we need to talk about self care, because that’s really the foundation. That’s your health and wellness. And everything really comes from that. I probably would have to say, though, that when I think of that question, it reminds me of earlier years. I think even just being a woman that I, you know, one of the stigmas I think behind that is often that if you’re taking care of self first, that maybe that’s selfish in some way. Totally. And what I’ve realized is that that’s taken, you know, a while for me to even understand that it’s really an unselfish act. Because, you know, the more you’re able to take care of yourself. really, truly, the more you you have to give, yes. Right. And, again, that’s something I think you have to continually have to work at. But I also know that I am more efficient. I have more energy, when I’m sort of filling up my cup first, right? Yeah, so I would say that it’s really instrumental in order to have the best, I think emotional, physical and mental health. Yeah.

Nicki Kirlin  08:22

Yeah, absolutely. It’s, it’s interesting, the role that, that self care can play and how much that can influence, you know, your, your, as a woman, I guess, specifically, the many roles that you play, right. So if you are in the mental health, professional field, then you have a role there. If you are a mother, if you are a wife, if you are a sister, whatever your role is, so many of those roles are influenced by whether you practice self care or not.

Liane  08:49

Right? Absolutely, you have to fill yourself up. And if you don’t, then you’re going to be depleted, and you really have nothing to give. And I understand that on so many levels, and you’re absolutely right, it’s in all domains of your life. Right. So and, and I noticed the difference in myself. Yeah, it, you know, and others do, too, because there’s an inner strength that you have, as you are taking care of self. And that’s in all areas, you know, spirituality for me, and, you know, physically being with nature, and, you know, eating well, and just being with people is very energizing as you’re taking care of self for sure. Yeah. And you have to role model that. Yeah. You have to walk the talk. Right. Yeah.

Jenna Fortinski  09:30

Yeah. And I think it’s important to note, like, especially in the media nowadays, is that there’s kind of this pushback around, you know, self care is not having a bath, right, that there’s so much more to self care. And so I was wondering if you could speak to that a little bit Liane about like, what, what classifies something as self care because I think there’s a lot of mixed messages in the media. Because I think that I would argue even for myself, me having a bath is is self care for me that is something that I do value and it is important to me, you know, I’m I own a business. I’m a mom, I’m a I’m a therapist, right? So for me, the bath really holds a high significance for me. But I’m noticing on me on social media and the messages we’re getting around us that, you know, it should be more than that, or we should be aiming higher or better. What do you think about that, Liane?

Liane  10:25

I think it’s really personal. And it’s really individual, like I’ve talked to, you know, friends and things like that, for instance, set a bath for them. Oh, no way. Yeah, it would be more of a shower. It’s going for a jog. It’s, maybe it’s even going for a nice dinner. There’s lots of ways to do self care. For me. I would say I love the hot bath. But now I have a hot tub. Yes. You’ve

Jenna Fortinski  10:50

leveled up, Liane.

Liane  10:52

I know it’s an outdoor hot tub, and it’s really nice and warm, it’s at 104 degrees. You know, I get to look at the sky. You know, because we’re on an acreage, I get to just feel all the peace in my my head and everything. And I just love it. And, and for me, 20 minutes, 15 to 20 minutes. I just feel so relaxed. And so for me that self care and actually even a really nice dinner. So I think I think I think everybody has their own way of doing self care. And I think we just have to, you know, and just mindfulness. A lot of people really are into meditation yoga. You know, I think, whatever brings you a sense of peace and a sense of rest in your mind. Yeah, I think that’s what self care is all about. Yeah,

Jenna Fortinski  11:37

yeah. And thank you for that. Thank you for that clarification. Because I do think that it’s important that we advocate for people to really focus on what’s important for them, you know, themselves, right, and not to really focus on what everybody else is saying, and what everybody else is doing is what makes you feel good. And what makes you feel like you’re filling your cup back up. And that’s what’s important, right.

Nicki Kirlin  12:02

So what happens then, in the case, where, you know, as mental health professionals, we get to the point where we maybe are not, we haven’t been practicing self care? What like, what, what does that look like? And how do you know, when it’s time to maybe get some help for yourself? What like, what would that look like?

Liane  12:21

Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, I could probably, I’ll share some experience with that. And in particularly, when I first got into my career, I remember wanting to just do so much and try to be them, you know, you know, there for everyone. And, you know, I remember feeling, you know, it sort of sneaks up on us yeah, gradually, but I remember feeling like, you know, I get home, I wasn’t able to turn my mind off, I was thinking about sort of all the stories in my mind in my head. And, you know, could I have done this differently, maybe the, you know, the staff needs more support here, it was a residential program. So, there was a lot of high risk teenagers and, you know, families that I was working with, and then I wasn’t, you know, having problems with sleep, you know, you know, getting up in the morning, not feeling really rested, very irritable, you know, and really, almost having to be outside of myself, in some ways, you know, to be professional at work. And I think at that point in time, I didn’t recognize it as quickly as I would, I certainly would have recognized a lot quicker now. And then, but just knowing that no, something’s going on, that’s different, you know, watching, you know, a simple program or whatever, and then all of a sudden feeling, you know, kind of tearful, maybe even a bit label. And so knowing that I need supervision around that, and, you know, and being able to talk to my supervisor very openly, you know, was somebody very supportive, non judgmental, and thinking that maybe I’m overextending myself actually not maybe knowing that I’m overextending myself and then thinking I need to somehow you know, sort of backup and go Okay, what do I need to do now again, to revisit how I feel my myself up and perhaps maybe I might even need to access some support, more professional support even you know, as I’m as I’m working, yeah.

Jenna Fortinski  14:24

Do you think that there’s a stigma for us as counselors and therapists getting our own support? Do you think that there’s a stigma around that?

Liane  14:32

You know, I think because I’ve been doing this for as long as I have as well as part of my master’s degree was you had you needed to do 12 sessions of half of it needed to be if you were in a relationship to do couple work and the other six sessions needed to be family of origin work. However I had prior to get getting into this field because I went back to school as a mature student. I had started working on my My personal self, and you know, my family of origin before that. So for me, I think there was less of a stigma for myself personally, just because I knew that it’s really important that number one, if I’m going to be working with people, that if I haven’t been able to, like, if I really believe in what I’m doing, why wouldn’t it also be good for me? Yeah. So I seen the value of it just personally, before I even went back to school, and I thought, my goodness, if I could ever learn how to do this, and to help, you know, others the way I was helped them, to me, that would be a true gift. So However, what I realized, you know, when I started working in the field, you know, even just as a supervisor, you know, asking, or recognizing that, you know, you know, a colleague, you know, or, you know, somebody was working with needed more support, I did see that there is a stigma. And, and that’s sad, because I think that I think we’re doing a good, we’re doing a way better job at, you know, deconstructing that, but I still think we have a long way to go. And just because you work as a therapist, or any sort of field, doesn’t mean, life isn’t perfect, it will never be, and it’s not supposed to be. And it can be messy, and we’re human beings and as human beings, we all you know, it doesn’t matter what courses you take, life is hard. Yeah. And I think that it’s important that we, we understand that asking for help, is such a strength that takes so much courage. And I think you have so much more to give when you’re able to do that.

Jenna Fortinski  16:52

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was interesting. I was watching the news recently, I think it was on on one of the major news networks here in Canada. And they were talking about doing some research around this past year, because there has been a lot of focus with the pandemic, and COVID-19 on doctors and nurses that have been in the frontlines, and they had recognized that the mental health profession has not given, they haven’t given as much attention to the mental health professional professions, in terms of the impact it’s had on us and for what we’ve been doing, because we’ve been having to navigate the pandemic as individuals, but then also supporting others in navigating the pandemic as well, right, and really trying to help other people navigate something that we don’t understand, and they don’t understand. Right. So I think they were doing some research around the impact that it’s had on us as, as the mental health professionals and supporting that through this past year. So it’s nice to hear, I think, for me as a mental health professional, that they’re starting to see that it is important for us to get our own support and for us to, to have good community and connection around us so that we’re doing good work. And we’re also getting our own support, right? Because the reality is, is nobody can do it alone. And nobody is capable of doing it alone. And, you know, community is really where the healing happens. Right. And I that’s what I’ve learned over my career as well as is having really good supports.

Liane  18:24

Right? You know, I appreciate you mentioning that, because I think that no different than any of us, I’ve never lived through a pandemic. So, you know, although I’m a psychologist, this is all new to me. And it’s new to my team. Yeah, new to the clients that I work with. And it impacts all of us. And I think that we have to have compassion, obviously, with the people that we work with. But I also think for ourselves, like this is new to us, and this is heart. And I think that I think there’s going to be a lot to be said, probably, post pandemic. I know, I’m very worried about just the pandemic that we’re going there. We’re already noticing about mental health right now and addiction. It’s high and an I I appreciate that I feel even with my role, the support to give to my team. I even have to do even more self care. Yes, yeah. They’re needing more support and understandably so because families are really and just your own personal family is going through this and I’m so empathetic and have so much compassion for families, you know, that are losing jobs. And there’s the all this uncertainty and teenagers, you know, going to school, not going to school. You know, young people that are now just been pulled out. There’s just so much out there that I can just, you know, I could just so empathize and have so much Passion, and just know that for sure. We need to be able to be together. Yeah. And certainly be a community of support. Yeah. So thank you for bringing that up. I appreciate that.

Jenna Fortinski  20:13

Yeah. I think that that message of, like, you know, no one is immune to it, right, that we’re all experiencing the same thing. And I think that’s so important. And, you know, there is a sense of community around that is that, you know, we really can rely on each other. And we’re all in this together. Right. And I think that’s important part.

Nicki Kirlin  20:30

So hopefully, we are starting to break the stigma a little bit, then in Hatton having that conversation in the media, or mainstream media about how this is impacting, you know, our mental health professionals. And maybe people are opening up a little bit more than to that conversation of practicing self care and how important it is. Yeah. So it’s kind of good in a way that we can have that conversation now.

Liane  20:56

You know, when Honestly, I just wanted to say, the reason I decided to be part of this pod podcast is I really needed to search within myself. And I practice a lot with vulnerability. And I felt that this is definitely being vulnerable. Yes. And I do want to break the stigma of mental health and no different than it doesn’t matter what I do. I also am impacted. And I see the value of reaching out and I really just encourage, I really encourage people to reach out. It’s just such a sign of strength, and it is also a sign of that. We’re you’re not alone. And because sometimes you can share feel alone. Yes, yeah. Yeah. And I so understand that.

Jenna Fortinski  21:42

And you especially in this panic attack, yeah. Right. Like, there’s such a sense of loneliness out there. And it’s, it’s so hard, right, because people are stuck at home. And, you know, whether you’ve got a house full of people or not, you know, they’re that loneliness is there. Yeah. Right. And

Liane  21:58

I noticed, you know, a shift away from the first wave, right. I think a lot of families were sort of embracing being together. Yeah. When working from home, you know, which ones were able to and which ones weren’t? And but I think, as it played itself out, I think it’s, I really noticed the impact in teenagers in particularly for sure, yeah, you know, the amount of, you know, not going to school, and, you know, gaming and addiction, and, you know, even couples, you know, together lots of conflict, all that togetherness time. And even if you’re both working from home, and you don’t have the space. Yeah, I’m feeling crowded. Yeah. So it’s got a huge impact. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But so I get it. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Jenna Fortinski  22:48

Even personally. Absolutely. Really. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicki Kirlin  22:54

So we talked a little bit a bit a little bit about self care. Do you have any tips that you’ve learned through your your years of practicing self care? What like, what kind of tips can you share with our listeners of what what are some good ways to practice it? You mentioned a few at the beginning. But what other kinds of insight Do you have into to making it part of your life?

Liane  23:16

You know, I think, probably the biggest insight I would have to that would be understanding, because where, you know, when I think about my earliest beginnings, self care would have been probably the last thing I would have seen my mum doing, it was always doing for, you know, as children, you know, her friends, you know, she was always such a giving person. So I thought that that was the that that you really didn’t have time for self care. So I think the biggest piece that I had to get through is that you actually don’t have time not for self care. Okay. Because what I’ve realized about taking care of myself, I actually have way more to give, and I’m much more clear, I’ve got more energy. I tend to be certainly, I would say, way more hopeful. I find that when you don’t give yourself that self care, I think you end up being somewhat, probably resentful. And you may not show that on the outside. But I think inwardly you start to feel like wow, you know, I just feel like I’m giving so much and but I’m not really taking any in anything either. And I don’t, I’m the kind of person that really values being loving, and caring and compassionate. And so I realized when I started practicing self care and having really good boundaries, that I was able to be way more loving way more caring and It just it enriched my relationships that much more. So I actually even make more time now for self care. And I noticed the difference in my relationships, for sure. And even even with people that I work with, you can almost see this inner shine that they have, they start showing up. And you can just see that there’s a bit of a bounce in their step, there’s more optimism. There’s just a light that they have. And and I get it now I still get it. And I don’t think that Well, I know for sure I could never do this work without really paying attention to that’s so important and so crucial.

Jenna Fortinski  25:45

So do you think that there is that we should be practicing self care all the time? Or maybe only when we’re starting to feel the burnout or compassion fatigue? What’s your opinion on that?

Liane  25:57

Oh, now I just feel like that’s that, that that’s every day. That’s almost for me. It’s like taking breath. Yeah, if I was not practicing self care every day, I just would feel that I absolutely would not be my best self. And I feel like I have a responsibility. Not just to myself, but to you know, my team, you know, the people that I work with that I have such a privilege to work with. So it has to be an end. You know what, I don’t even think about it anymore. It was funny. When I first started practicing it, it was like, you know, you need to do this. This this. Yeah. Now it just comes naturally. Yeah. And it’s just part of it’s part of who I am. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I don’t, I think where I would have made the mistake earlier, is what you just said was about. I think I had to get to the burnout. Yeah. And, yeah, and but I realized through going through, you know, compassion fatigue for certainly, I would have called it burnout back then. Yeah, I realized that that was really hard. But you know, I needed to go through it. Yeah. Just to understand how I needed to get in front of it next time. Yeah. And now self care is part of who I am. I walk beside it. And yeah, I’ve learned to really love myself in that way. Yeah. And then be able to love others. Much better now. Yeah. More. Yeah. more caring for sure.

Nicki Kirlin  27:30

And it’s interesting, because we talk, we talked to a had a conversation on another one of our podcasts, where we were saying about how getting mental health help, in general should be something that you practice, not just at the point of right, having struggles or issues. And this is same conversation. Yeah. Like, it’s important that even if you are a mental health professional, that if you are struggling, that you don’t have to wait until you get to that point of a struggle that it is important that you practice self care pieces, before reaching that point, right. So we’re hopefully sharing the same message that this is a critical step to take at any point in your journey, regardless of where you are in your life. Right.

Jenna Fortinski  28:11

So and it’s okay to just start today. Yeah, this is not something your you’ve heard of before, or you, you have previously thought that you know, you need to be in some sort of crisis mode or be at the end of your rope to start doing self care. No, like, start today. Even if you’ve had the greatest day or the best day of your life. Start today, right? Add a little cherry on top of self care on top of the greatest day ever. And, and just make it like what Liane had said, as part of your routine part of what you do every day. It’s almost second nature, it’s the same as breathing is that self care becomes a part of that. Yes. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Nicki Kirlin  28:48

So I know, we’ve been talking specifically about mental health professionals in this episode. But would you say, Liane, in your opinion, is sort of getting that that getting that level of practicing that self care piece important, just for mental health professionals? Or do you think that it can go beyond that profession as well?

Liane  29:10

You know, I think that compassion over all is quite innate. I think that we’re all you know, hardwired for caring, right? So doesn’t matter what profession. I mean, I waitressed for 17 years prior to going back to school, and I think every while I know that self care to me is the foundation. And I think that, that it doesn’t matter what you do. If you’re not taking care of yourself, you’re not really your best self. And so I think it goes across professions. I really do. And I think that you know, even though when I was waitressing I remember caring too much for friends. You know, like way too much and I remembered Taking on a lot. Yeah. And yeah, you know, almost becoming part of not so much part of the I remember taking a lot of a lot of their sadness forth, right. Yeah. And that, again had a lot to do with probably me not feeling that I have value. Right, right. And so I think everything that we do and doesn’t matter what profession if we can just remember that we’re important to, and to make ourselves important enough to just do it. It doesn’t take a long time. It doesn’t take a lot of time, just even 30 minutes a day of doing something that you love, and that I remember somebody telling me they love knitting, right? I’d love to learn how to Yeah, but I don’t. But that brought this one person, so much relaxation, and so much peace. And I’m thinking 30 minutes, really, in a whole day, we need to make ourselves important enough to do that. Yeah, so it doesn’t matter to me, every profession for sure.

Jenna Fortinski  31:07

Now to say that with Leon’s experience and knowledge, to ask you for one piece of advice, to close this episode with feels like just doesn’t feel right to me. So what are your closing thoughts? Liane, like what, you know, given the topic that we’ve talked about, and where the world is today, in terms of a pandemic, and the role for us as mental health professionals, and also for everybody else that has struggled throughout this past year? And also, I think what we have ahead of us, what are your parting words? What What do you want everybody to know what’s important for people to walk away with?

Liane  31:44

Wow, I think I’ll back up to something you said, actually, Jenna, and it was when you said about, it’s certainly never too late, too late, you start with self care, like you can start today. I so agree with that. I have noticed, even when I’ve, you know, I run caregiver groups, and you know, I have caregivers that come into the group, and you certainly can tell like, this was just a, you know, a group I let ran recently, and they had never really felt most of the parents there had never felt that, you know, they had time for self care, you know, they’re teenagers, and everything was more important, right. And when they started to do that, to me, Today is a new day to start, you know, you know, anything that you can do to be kind to yourself, and just to really love yourself, you know, I think the pandemic in lots of ways, when I think about it, I think it’s revealed a lot of probably what wasn’t working in the first place, actually, I think if we can take a look at some of those pieces. And, for me anyways, and certainly for a lot of the people I work with, you certainly start to notice what’s most important, you know, really connect back to your values. And really, what’s most important in the end, is, you know, your family, you know, the people around you that you love, and you care about those are the most important pieces of your life. And even through these times of, you know, really difficult and, you know, it’s unpredictable and it’s very uncertain. We can become resilient. As long as we do this to, you know, together to the best way we can, really to try to not be divisive, and really to accept people where they’re at, because everybody is at a different place. So really, you know, really make, you know, generous and kind thoughts about, you know, the people that you’re dealing with, because right now, it’s really hard and not everybody deals with stress really well. And so I think we have to be behind. And, you know, and understand that everybody is going through their own, you know, stressors right now. Yeah. And really just learn to walk alongside and try to be the best support that we can, you know, because in the end, that’s what’s most important. Yeah. And really that feeling that you’re not alone? Yeah. Yeah. Because it sure can feel that way. Absolutely. Yeah.

Jenna Fortinski  34:48

Oh, my goodness. Liane, you are unbelievable. I cannot tell you how grateful I am that you were willing to do this with us and to be a part of It’s, it really means a lot to us. And you know, you come with, like I said, a wealth of knowledge. So you’ll definitely be back. Yes, you’re gonna be on I’m sure many times.

Nicki Kirlin  35:14

I’m telling you. It’ll be coming back. Yeah,

Liane  35:18

I gotta tell you, and I think I told you ladies first when I started. I really nervous. I’m not a really nervous person, like, but you never know. It.

Jenna Fortinski  35:29

did amazing. Yeah. So the listeners know, I was anxious. But you’d never know it. You didn’t have to say you could have still stood in hiding. But it was a fantastic conversation to be here. Right? Yeah, I needed to be here. Yeah. And we so appreciate you, you know, advocating for this breaking the stigma and especially for mental health professionals, because it is so important. That you know, we have a big job on our shoulders. Yes. And at the end of the day for everybody also to realize that we do have a big job on our shoulders, right that us as professionals? Yes, we have a lot of undertaking, but for everybody else to notice that too. Right. And I think a beautiful message like Liane had stated is that, you know, for us to all be kind to each other for us all to realize that we’re all struggling, we, we are all in this together, nobody is alone. So please reach out. Please take the time to advocate for yourself. And even if it is just one phone call, or one email or one text, you know, you can it can be very small, just to get the ball rolling. So thank you. Yeah,

Nicki Kirlin  36:35

thank you. I good. Thank you.

Jenna Fortinski  36:38

So we would like Liane to close this episode with a quote that she’s chosen. Okay.

Liane  36:44

I have a two quotes, but the I love Britney Brown. I’m just gonna let everybody know. Everybody knows me know that. And one of her quotes that I really love is talk to yourself like you would someone you love. Like, talk to yourself like you would your best friend. It’s honestly a lot harder when you actually practice it yourself. And I find that it really helps you to be really kind and accepting and loving and forgiving of yourself. And another one I actually had just come across today, actually before the podcast and I apologize, I don’t know who actually quoted this. It might be unknown, actually, an empty lantern provides no light. Self Care is the fuel that allows your light to shine brightly. And I think when I need to say about that, with the groups that I’ve ran over the years, especially with my caregivers, I can see them walk into the room, and it feels as if they’ve got a glimmer in their eyes. And as they leave and are able to take care of themselves and just feel like they’ve really truly felt their own cup. There’s a light that I can’t even explain, but it’s like a glow that happens over them. And their eyes just start to shine. And so that quote really resonated with me. And I just encourage all our listeners to just do something really nice for yourself every day. And just know that you give back tenfold when you do something nice for yourself. And thank you for having me.

Nicki Kirlin  38:23

Thank you