Breaking the Stigma: Bryce and Dave – Mental Health in the Corporate World and Creating a Supportive Culture

The mullet is back!

Maybe it should have never left. At 360 Energy Liability Management, they love the classic hairstyle for it;s class, attitude and important message it represents for the company. Using this message to raise awareness about the critical conversation on mental health, they have started a fundraiser with all proceeds going to the Canadian Mental Health Association.

Listen as we discuss the greatest mullets of all time, how the mullet philosophy has changed their culture at work, and why we need to get rid of the phrase ‘I’m good’.

Donate to their fundraiser through this link

Learn more about 360 Elm



Dave, Bryce, Nicki Kirlin


Nicki Kirlin  00:00

Yeah. So to kick us off then, as we do with all of our guests, we’re going to ask you if you just introductory questions. So can you tell us Let’s start with Dave, do you want to tell us your age, hometown? what you do and Fun fact, please.


Dave  00:17

Sure. Um, so I’m Dave. I’m 34 hometown would technically be Saskatoon. I was born in Saskatoon but I grew up in in Calgary from a young age, elementary up. So I’m a calgarian. I’m business development manager for 360 energy liability management. So we are world class gas closure firm. We help oil and gas companies deal with their liabilities and how to safely and efficiently close old and aging sites about well abandonment decommissioning, pipeline decommissioning, environmental reclamation remediation so I’m kind of the front end of our business, the business development side do all the sales marketing and fun things like like what we’re doing now with the with the mullets. So that’s, that’s my role at 360. And a fun fact about me, I really enjoy cooking kind of a amateur home chef. And just as I started my previous company, before I started with 360, I was invited to audition for Master Chef Canada, but decided to not take it because I just started a new job trying to, you know, be responsible. And I, I always kick myself now because I wish I kind of did it and maybe made the show and kind of you know, continued my passion for cooking, but that never happened. So I just kind of laugh about it sometimes.


Nicki Kirlin  01:52

Goodness, I know it’s a shame you missed out. So then I have another follow up question for that. What’s your most favorite dish to make? Yeah, you could pick one


Dave  02:03

that’s tough. I you know, I like I like smoking proteins. ultimate favorite thing is, is probably like bone in Tomahawk ribeye steak, like a 30 ounce ribeye with a big bone in it and steering it off and then fishing in the oven and then you know, some sort of something that go with it like a chimichurri or homemade chimichurri or something like that.



Oh my god, that sounds fantastic. Yeah. Now I’m hungry. Yeah. Yeah.


Nicki Kirlin  02:36

That’s fantastic. Thank you for sharing that, Dave. Okay, so Bryce, same questions to you then. So age, hometown occupation, and then a fun fact, please.


Bryce  02:45

So my name is Bryce Watson. And I’m, I’m from a place called Port Alice on northern Vancouver Island. And it’s, it’s probably about 1200 people. Now it’s about 300. It’s a little forestry town fantastic place to grow up. From fact of or, and so my occupation is, I’m the chief liability Officer of 360. So new title, we made it up because our company has kind of a new structure, we’re kind of like trying to change the face of how closure was in, in the oil and gas sector. And so when we look at closure differently, unquote, you know, sort of our one of our company missions is closure makes a difference. And so that’s why we really wanted to come up with unique title, and kind of a unique structure for the business. So I was one of the founders that are the one of the three founders with Mark Ashton and Ryan Smith. Yeah, so. And Fun fact of myself about myself is that when I was 40 years old, I played a singles match for squash for a trophy, with the captain, former former captain of team Canada’s rugby team. I was I was at a match that went for five, five games and longest match. I don’t know if I’ve ever heard of one that went longer. But yeah, it was it was the crowning achievement of my sporting career. But it just so happens that that captain of team Canada’s rugby team, it’s my business partner, Ryan Smith. So um, yeah. So I think that trophy would have been the crowning achievement of his career, as well. And he was trying, he tried really hard, but he doesn’t have that trophy. So he has a lot of other things, but he doesn’t have that. But anyway, I’m sure. That’s just a fun fact. Yeah. And I’m sure he misses that trophy dearly. Yeah, I’m positive of it. So the irony of it is that he has a couple from that same tournament that are just like it, but he doesn’t have that one.



And that was


Bryce  04:56

actually, I don’t know. Yeah, that one I think is made of it’s made of gold. The other ones or something else?


Nicki Kirlin  05:03

Oh my goodness. that’s a that’s a great one. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Okay, so why don’t you guys tell us a little bit about mullets for mental health. And for those of us who maybe haven’t heard about it yet, or just hearing the rumblings about and maybe if you’ve seen the news, you might have seen the segment on the news. But tell us a little bit about what what’s going on with mullets for mental health.


Dave  05:28

So we wanted to do something we, we always try to do, you know, at least twice a year or each season, you know, community initiative. So, over the holidays, we had an initiative for calorie Meals on Wheels. So we’re just what should we do in the spring, and we were spitballing ideas around. And so just kind of taking a step back, we talk a lot about the culture at 360 being the mullet culture, it’s it’s something that Bryce and Ryan and Mark started early days, and really embedded that culture into the company as as we’ve grown. So basically, you know, very professional, polished business, in the front, make, you know, make a difference for our industry and our clients and, and very professional, take everything seriously. But we have a lot of fun at the same time. Whether it’s in our office, you know, after work, having some beers or just, you know, having good times with our clients or whatever that is we make sure that we have a lot of fun while while doing what we do every day. So, you know, business in the front party in the back is the culture at 360. So that’s the theme that we have. There’s there’s pictures of Patrick Swayze around our office and we even made a little logo, a fun logo, a secondary logo, that’s a little mullet and it kind of resembles sways ease flow. So we put that on hats and stuff. It’s it’s our fun logo so that that culture has always been there. And so we decided we’re like well, you know, let’s tie that our our spring IT community initiative to the mall that somehow and then, you know, my hair was getting really long just because it’s the barber shops closed down and Bryce’s hair always looks like a mad scientist. So someone I can’t remember who it was. He said mullets for mental health wallets. So it just was like, Wow, that’s a great idea. So we’re like, how do we pull this off? And so we we decided, we talked about what, what charity we wanted to support and we threw a few around, we decided to go with the Canadian Mental Health Association because it’s a broad Association. It doesn’t matter if it’s you know, concussion from sports or stress. At home, it covers the broad spectrum, which we thought was the best angle to go at it. So we started a campaign, a GoFundMe page, reached out to Canadian Mental Health Association, and decided on when we should do this and and you know, right at the end of June, if Stampede did happen if we were rockin mullets, that would be even better. So we’re like, let’s try to keep his hair going until end of June. And yeah, that’s how it came together. So it’s, it’s a fun campaign, like Bryce said, to raise awareness to raise some funds. You know, that’s, that’s definitely important, but it’s more about the awareness. So we’ve raised about five grand now. We’re hoping to maybe get to 10. But we’ll see. See what happens. But it’s all about the awareness. And, you know, mental health has become such a, I think it’s it’s always been an issue, obviously, but through COVID and, and the stresses on on people’s families and businesses. It’s raised that concern even more, so I think it was good timing. And yeah, that’s exactly what it is, is just to have some fun and grow our hair out because it’s part of our culture. At the same time, raised some some money and awareness for mental health issues.


Nicki Kirlin  09:10

That’s Yeah, it’s it’s a fantastic ingenious idea. Just before we comment on that brace, did you have anything that you wanted to add to what Dave was?


Bryce  09:19

Okay. I actually there’s a couple of things. So So, so the idea was actually my daughter’s Oh, that was where it came from. So I was gonna because I don’t know if Dave like when we I was driving with her Mike, because I live in work in Calgary and I commute back and forth. long commute. Anyway, so so I have a bit of a drive with my kids about about two hours and so my I told my kids I was growing a mullet because we came up with this. Sorry, my partner’s Ryan and Mark came up with this business in the front party in the back hole philosophy for the project which are for the company which I fully support and always happen. It’s amazing. But I didn’t even know what they want. what it was, and I was at a client function once. And there was this stuff on the table that that was about this business in the front party in the back. And it’s, and I didn’t even know what it was about. And so there and so our clients are explaining it to us. And so are to me, like this is what it means is like your professional and then I was like, oh, wow, that’s embarrassing. So so. So I told my daughter about this story. And see, she said, Well, you should grow a moment to show them like, because obviously they have these professional haircuts all the time. And you like Dave said, look like a mad scientist. Yeah. So. So she said, You should grow a mullet. And and then she said, and then you you should do it. Like, because she knew she knew. It’s like, she knows how much. I’ve talked to my kids all the time about mental health and how important it is to talk. Like, you know, being having the courage to talk about it all the time. And she said, Well, why don’t you do that? You’re talking to us about it all the time. Why don’t you for mental health. And so that was where it really so I said, that was where that kind of quirky thing came from Dave and I were talking about doing wallets before that. Yeah, that was where that whole tie in fundraiser and everything came from. And so just to wrap it all up without making a huge story, it was this. When this we started this, I was like, super proud. And I sent like my kids this thing. And I was like, hey, look your idea. Like it got some got some headway. And we started for our company and look like we got 12 people. And then the next day global call, and it was so I was like a kids, you can do anything, right? Like if you actually start anything. So this was really a it’s really unlike like with you guys calling. And I’m hoping that we actually get a couple more things or do more. Because I just think it’s a great thing to show my kids you can do whatever, whatever, you know, you have to have a great idea or a great initiative that can snowball into anything. So that’s really what I was. That’s also part of it for me too. So but also a big, huge kudos to Dave in this. Like, I spit out ideas all day long to other people. And I’m talking about stuff and Dave took this and he got this off the ground. So huge. Dave is just like the mastermind. Everything behind this getting off the ground and moving forward. That all the the awesome Swayze or sorry, it’s I don’t even know if we can say Swayze? Yeah, I think it’s gonna be the Dave the Dave, the Dave profile that’s going to be his profile going on. We should do that on our hats is your profile with the beard, change our profile? I gotta go. I gotta grab the hat. I had to come inside. So you can see. Yeah, anyway. Yeah. Sorry, that was too long. On the first question, sir, we’re taking No, no,


Nicki Kirlin  12:48

you both hit on some really, really important points. So I’m glad that you got a chance to kind of share the history behind that, and so fantastic that the idea, you know, was sort of born with your daughter, and then he kind of took it and runs it and everybody got behind it. And it’s also fantastic to hear about, you know, your culture as an organization that there is that already the seeds of those really important ideas of having a good organizational culture sort of behind the scenes. And then that does make for a better product, sort of, you know, as forward facing. So I think it’s fantastic. And I mean, when you’re supporting mental health, you can never go wrong. Yeah. Right. good on you for capitalizing on the conversation that’s happening right now, around COVID. Like, it seems like people are way more willing to talk about mental health because of COVID if you want to talk to that at all, but no, I agree entirely. And I think COVID has really helped people understand that we are all struggling, and then everybody has their own struggles. And so that’s why you know, generating these conversations is so important. It’s just reminding people that nobody’s alone, right. And, you know, we all have our ways of managing things. And, and some people have inherent skills to manage things, some people don’t, but it’s important to have a conversation so we can share ideas, and we can let each other know that we’re not alone. And that’s what I loved about your guys’s initiative, and especially with I think the industry that you guys are in, you know, mental health is really important to be talked about. Right and, and to just again, reaffirm that idea that no one person is alone in their struggle. So love that shirt on you guys. Yeah, yeah. So I have one more question for you. It’s more of a fun question before we move into more serious questions. So you’ve already mentioned Swayze, as one person who’s had a fantastic knowledge. So if you had to say there’s one person in history, who’s had like the best mullet ever, up until now, who would it be? Bryce, you go first. Okay.


Bryce  14:45

So can it be someone who’s not famous, like someone like a friend? So So? So Kyle dance, he’s our so we have a partner coming in called stratix. We started our business and they do a database but they have a database and It’s a fantastic management system that you know, we’ve been developing and it’s fully focused on site closure. fantastic thing, not doing a pitch for him. Kyle has this small that I knew the guy for a few years before it was even like, I worked up the courage to talk to the guy because he was so intimidating with this small it probably took two years before I actually talked to Scott here down to here. So he has a great mullet. So, but he has a fantastic mullet. But also I just need to. Yeah, I’ll just leave it there. But there’s some professional wrestlers that Bret Hart has a great mullet. Yeah, that’s true. There might Yeah. And sort of Shawn Michaels. Also great mullet. So I but but there’s some, but there’s some hockey players and I don’t I don’t even want to go and go into it. And if I did there, there’d be some there’s some that have a comparative hairstyle to to mine. Patrick Kane had a great mullet at one point for the playoffs. It was kind of like a was kind of like beaver tail because he had the curly half. Say Afro was like extremely tight, curly hair. Yeah, yeah. So he had a great moment.


Nicki Kirlin  16:17

some good answers. Yeah, there’s one. Yeah. Okay. Dave. What’s, what’s your favorite?


Dave  16:22

I’ve got to go with a hockey player to your Jaromir Jagr in the early 90s. Like, that mullet was just so ridiculous. And he rocked it so good. And here he is rocked it for most of his career. I know. I remember kind of, I think it was one of the we played for Washington later in his career. He cut it off. And he just didn’t look as intimidating. And then he is and then when he got older, I think he grew up back again. But when he was with the penguins, and they really want easy Jagr’s and all that was legendary.


Bryce  16:55

I I’m really we’re actually worried about you with our business development Dave. Like, once we go full mullet, like, I don’t know. They’d like I don’t even know if like our sales are just gonna go way down for mullet. It’s too much. It’s too it’ll be too much for people to take will be like the outsiders coming for every sales call. You’ll be like running for the doors. Right.


Nicki Kirlin  17:22

Okay, when I think of mullets I think of who Billy Ray Cyrus. Oh, right. Yeah, a good one. He IDs. Yeah, great,one . I know. 


Jenna Fortinski

And we we also have to favor of course Kelly Hrudey. Yep. Cuz he’s been on our show. Yeah. And he’s he had a beautiful mullet in his day, so we definitely have to shout out to him so but yeah, there’s there’s been some beautiful ones and intimidating you guys got it. It is true. Yeah, yeah. And


Dave  17:53

Billy Ray’s was even so powerful. He passed it on to his daughter because Miley was rockin a girl mullet


Nicki Kirlin  18:00

so great. That’s very true. Good point.


Bryce  18:06

I think this interview would have a way different tone if Dave was full mullet hmm. I agree. Like if he was i i i actually every time the screen pops up with him. I feel a little bit just imagining what that that was for a minute it would be quite intimidating.


Nicki Kirlin  18:25

And I feel like Jenna maybe needs to help Bryce a little bit after this phone call my feelings around intimidation. And mullets we can have something there 


Jenna Fortinski

Don’t worry we can get we can conquer this fear. Absolutely. I can’t wait. I’m gonna keep until we play our first game.


Bryce  18:48

Absolutely. Shorts a bandana a bandana and data mullet. You’re in trouble? Yeah. Mullet. 


Jenna Fortinski

That’s Kelly Hrudey. Right. Not the band’s all exactly. Nailed it. Yeah. That’s why we’re so distraction. Everyone’s shot for it.


Nicki Kirlin  19:10

Yeah, exactly. That’s right. Absolutely. Okay, so we talked, we talked about this a little earlier. But I just want to touch on it again, because I think it’s a really important piece to this whole fantastic initiative. is the idea of you know, you’re sort of business culture already supporting the idea of of a millage, right? The business in the front party in the back. So what do you think like, how has that sort of helped move this initiative forward? What are your like, what are your general thoughts on that? price? Do you want to go first? Maybe?


Bryce  19:49

Yeah, I’ll go ahead. Yes. So what, what I think it’s really done is, is it’s really generated that meant or it’s, it’s emphasized The importance that mental health is something that we all deal with every day. And it’s, it’s a really interesting thing because because I do check in with my partners every day, and I check in with almost everyone I see in the office or everyone I get a chance to check in with, there’s always it’s always like, how are you doing? How was your weekend? You’re meant how’s your mental health? It’s actually become part of our regular vernacular in the office, like, how’s your mental health? It’s just like, how’s your How are you doing? It’s just just just part of our vernacular, like, just part of regular everyday language. And our it’s a fantastic culture to live in. Not, not everybody’s there yet. There’s a few of us but but, you know, that’s, but it starts with, with repetition from, from leadership, and it goes, it’ll carry on from that way. But it’s important to become a regular part of our culture, because we’ve neglected it for so long, and we’ve been so scared to recognize that mental health isn’t it’s, it’s everyone has a mental health gauge my health, my mental health is great. Right? My tank is full, my tank is empty, but everyone has a tank mental health should be not be measured as a bad thing. It’s something we all have, it’s good or bad. Right? So that that’s really something that that we’ve embraced in the office. And I think this this initiative, I hope, changes that. So it’s a regular part of our life. And it’s not just Oh shit, my mental health, the only time we ever heard about it before. Sorry, and I the only time we ever heard about mental health before was when someone crashed or when someone burned out, or when someone needs help. But it’s not when, hey, I’m feeling fantastic. Well, maybe I can lean on that guy a bit more. I know, I’m gonna lean on that guy, cuz he’s got a bit more buoyancy, his cork is a bit higher than mine. Or maybe he can he can help out a bit more. And that’s Yeah, that’s really what I’d like. I’d like it to be more of a balance that way. So


Nicki Kirlin  21:58

no, and yeah, no. And I think that’s, that makes all the sense in the world. And it’s, and we’ve chatted about this, in previous podcast episodes, that whole conversation about how typically when people seek help, for their mental health, that’s when things are going really, really bad. It’s very rare that somebody will reach out and say, I need some help when things are going well. And we actually, we encourage people to even when things are going well, and you’ve spoken to this, yeah. But that’s usually the best time to reach out. Right? 


Jenna Fortinski

Yeah. Because you can actually hear what the feedback you’re getting. And when we’re in a really tight spot, or in a difficult spot, and, you know, we’re just trying to cope through each day, it’s really hard to hear, you know, the bigger picture and to understand the bigger picture, because you’re really just living day to day. And so that’s why you know, generating these conversations, like you said, Bryce, when when things are good is so helpful, because we can you know, it really internalize the messages that we’re getting. And we can also support each other. And so those are all really important strategies that you guys are using so good on you guys. It’s such a wonderful culture to be a part of. 


Nicki Kirlin

And so Dave, then for you, that must have meant, like that must have made your job so much easier to know that there already was this like, fantastic alignment between what you were pursuing? And, you know, and what the company believes in. So did you have anything else that you wanted to share on that before we move on to the next question?


Dave  23:18

Yeah, for sure. It’s exactly that the culture that, you know, Bryce and mark and Ryan, built from day one, and it’s just, you know, kind of been progressing. I joined just over a year ago, so jumped into this, you know, and they’ve already built this great culture, but the whole, the whole mullet mentality and how that builds into mental health is, is that comfort level, the vibe in our office is, you know, I think a lot different than most companies, there’s very much kind of rapport, that’s really a nice comfort level, it’s how are you doing, you know, and, and you can go to anybody, whether it’s, you know, your superior or appear and just be have that feeling of comfort that, you know, maybe you’re, you’re a little bit busy, or there’s a little bit of a workload or stress or whatever that might be, and, and you’re comfortable to talk about it. And everyone’s there, you know, willing to pitch in and help and it’s very much a team feeling and that that molded culture and how it’s really positively benefited mental health and, and how we’re comfortable to talk about it and and ask for help. That’s, that’s been huge, and it fits so perfectly into this campaign we’re doing. Absolutely.


Nicki Kirlin  24:40

And it’s also great that that you know, that you have that culture sort of facing going into this whole pandemic piece where everybody is overloaded all the time and overwhelmed and unsure and there’s all these you know, feelings of anxiety anyway. So it’s great that you already sort of had the the fantastic foundation to come To work from to face that right? Yeah. So, so good on you guys. Yeah. Okay, so my next question then is, do you think that there is a stigma about getting and receiving mental health support? Dave, do you want to go first?


Dave  25:15

Um, yes, I definitely think there is. Whether that’s, you know, just something that’s built into our society over time that it’s, it’s not okay to ask for help, when, you know, there’s, when it’s not visible, they sometimes, you know, people struggle with mental health are the happiest people you’ve ever met on the exterior, and they’re, and they’re good at doing that. And, you know, there is that feeling that asking for help, or just talking to someone shows weakness or vulnerability, or whatever that is, there definitely is a stigma there on on reaching out for support. And, and that’s part of the awareness piece that, I think that it’s definitely going in the right direction. There’s a lot of initiatives out there that are talking about mental health support now, and that it’s okay to talk. But it is definitely a stigma that’s been built into our society over time. That that everyone is is working on. And that was a big part of what we wanted to get out there for sure.


Nicki Kirlin  26:30

Awesome, great answer, Dave and Bryce, any other thoughts on that?


Bryce  26:35

Oh, that that was really great, Dave, it’s just, it’s just really about, I think I really covered it and sort of in what I said before, too, is about there’s a label, there has been a label and a stigma around it. And there really shouldn’t be, it’s, it’s really something that we all have mental health as a gauge. Right? It’s something that, you know, we all we all have a level of where we’re at. And you know, what we all want, one of the things is, and, and kind of touched on it a bit earlier, too is, is we all have times when we were low, and we all have times when we’re high, right? When I’m feeling great. And I hate that, you know, like, it’s like a sine curve. And I don’t know where I’m not all nerds that know what that looks like. But, but life is like a sine curve. And it’s, you know, there’s ups and downs. And when you’re up, it’s my responsibility. You know, I feel it’s my personal responsibility to help everyone that, you know, to get everyone to that level. And that’s really what we should be doing. And it’s really a part of our self awareness to recognize and it’s really hard to develop that is that realize, Hey, I should be able to lean on anybody to help me get up as well. Because anyone will try. You know, that’s what you can’t help. But want to listen to somebody when they tell you, you there’s something wrong. You just can’t help. But, but but no one, it’s about having the courage to speak out. Right? It’s all about courage, and just getting the strength to speak out. Absolutely. Just ask for help.


Nicki Kirlin  28:03

Yeah, and I think that’s a really good point. Jenna, did you have anything that you wanted to add on the piece? 


Jenna Fortinski

Yeah, I just wanted to capitalize on what Dave said a little bit is, you know, like, you had said that sometimes the happiest people on the outside are often the ones that are struggling. And so for me, like I always point to Robin Williams, right, is that, you know, somebody that, you know, it was his mission in life to make everybody laugh, and that’s where he, you know, got his little bit of happiness from. And little did we all know how much he was struggling on the inside. And I think that’s a really true depiction of a lot of people is that, you know, we really work hard to put up this really big front, when in actuality, like we said, it’s beginning, everybody is struggling in one way or another. And, you know, the questions that you guys are asking each other in your teams is so beautiful, and it just gives people that opportunity that Yeah, like, I might look like I’m put together but you know, what, like, everything at home is on fire or whatever, right? And, and, or I really am struggling and giving people the opportunity to actually say it and leaving that space and, and to also celebrate you know, what’s going well is also is so important is that you know, we are celebrating each other and we’re, we’re we’re supporting each other and I love, love, love that you guys are doing it from the leadership down. I think that’s so wonderful that you guys are are walking the talk. And that’s, that’s so important in an organization. So yeah, again, good on you guys. It’s beautiful. 


Nicki Kirlin

So then would you say and I already know the answer is going to be this first part of the question, but humor me and answered anyway. Do you think that there is a stigma specifically for men around receiving and seeking mental health support? And if you do think there is why do you think the stigma is there?


Bryce  29:48

I’m happy to go. Absolutely. And it’s all about it’s all about. It’s all about it’s all about image and it’s all about confidence and how you how your image portrays across, about across other men, and you can’t help it, you can’t help but you know, no one wants to be the, you know, the The, the, you know the male that shows weakness because if you ever watch wildlife videos what happens, right? That’s what happens, right? We all keep it inside. And you know what? The older I get and the more confident I get in my decisions in life, the more I realized that you just have to have the courage to just start talking about it. And and I’ve started to get more and more vocal as I’ve got older, older because I’ve struggled through a lot of those things myself, and I don’t know how I got through some of those dark times. And now when I look back, I’m like, I, I actually want to talk about this. And anyone I hero who’s got like, especially men, because there’s not a lot of male. There’s not a lot of support groups out there for men. There aren’t like there’s some guys the other night, we’re having a drink. And he was talking about starting a Mulligan’s Club, which mail boat guys going through divorce. And I said what a fantastic idea. Because I have this like personal initiative. Whenever there’s a buddy of mine going through divorce, I’m like, I know how hard it is to go through that by herself because I did it. And it was the dark, dark time. And I hadn’t like I looked for support groups, and there aren’t many. They’re not easy to find. There was lots for other issues, but there weren’t just a lot for for men just trying to figure it out. Lots for women, which is understandably so because there’s a lot of dark, dark times that women have to go through. But there’s not a lot for men. And so I just thought, you know, I’m going to talk to as many like, whenever I hear someone going through this, I want to just talk to them. And having the courage and to have the candor to say, that’s really dark, was a really hard time and when they hear what you’ve gone through, there are a lot more open and you don’t want if I can, if I can ever help one guy through it, I’d be so happy to know that it helped. And if that same thing with this initiative is just having the courage have the candor to talk about it. Yeah. So what’s the expression, the deep thoughts, it takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. So it’s kind of like, kinda like mental health. Like, you know, no one’s gonna laugh at me. If I tell them my mental health issues. If I tell them no one ever does that. Everyone always.


Nicki Kirlin  32:18

Yeah, I know. Sorry. And again, that just goes back to like, every, like we said, Everybody is struggling in one way or another. Right. And so, you know, to hear that up here is struggling, you just yeah, you just want to wrap your arms around them and say, let me support you through this. Let me because I’ve been there or I know what that feels like. Or I can just sit here and see that you’re hurting. So let me What can I do for you? How can I support you? Right? Yeah, so important. Now, Dave, did you have any thoughts that you wanted to add to that question for him?


Dave  32:48

I think Bryce nailed it pretty good. And, you know, the, it’s definitely a little bit of the macho thing, you know, guys just have that they don’t want to show weakness and it’s a macho thing. But also I don’t want to speak in generalities, but I think Bryce hit on it too. Men just tend to hold their emotions in I think a little bit more and that’s how we think we deal with it by not talking about it and holding it in where it’s probably not the case, it’s probably better to you know, talk about some things but I know for myself, I I don’t like to show my cards and and don’t like to you know, talk about things that are bugging me and it’s it’s once you do it, you realize how helpful it is?


Nicki Kirlin  33:33

Well, and I think that’s why you know, Bryce you said it’s so beautiful before is it’s about that courage piece, right? That’s why we say it takes courage to have these conversations because you do you have to be vulnerable and you have to put yourself out there and that you know, you risk some sort of reaction you don’t know what that reaction is going to be and you just hope that it’s positive like we you know, embrace like you said it’s you hope that it’s positive and that people now are more willing to have that conversation so it’s it’s fantastic for men in general that this conversation conversation is shifting and that we are you know, that the landscape is changing a little bit i think i hope anyways, and with you know, fantastic initiatives like what you guys are doing that only furthers the change in the landscape. Right? So it’s, it’s really awesome. So if you could sort of change one thing then if you had the power or the or the control to be able to change that conversation what like what would you change about that maybe specifically for men like the the the piece around the the weakness associated with it or the not being able to show your emotion like what would you hope would change if you could?


Bryce  34:39

So for me, personally, I guess, I guess I might be an anomaly with my friends and probably might explain, but I wish, I wish it was more. People felt safer to talk about how they are how they were doing. Like it was just okay like, I spray My ankle, it’s really sore, it’s broken, take a look at it, right? I’m really upset, or I’m really going through a hard time. And I really need to talk about it. So I’ve got a great network of friends that I have leaned on so heavily over the past year, like COVID has been been so difficult. And then we’ve had a business that’s exploded in the same time. So right, like going through COVID and being isolated plus that I’ve never relied on my family and friends and that network and had that courage. And so if, if there’s anything that I hope it changes, I hope that everyone would have that same feeling that they could reach out that I’ve had, right, that that that ability in that network. And that’s what I was really hoping with, with this campaign and what is that we can generate that, like comfort and awareness that it’s okay to talk about anything. Like, with, like anything at work like with us, because your sake, and it’s okay. And we’ll figure it out. Right? Nothing is so dark that you can’t get out of it. Right. So and that’s, that’s really what I want to generate out of this is that it’s okay, it’s just part of it. We’re all going through it. And it’s no big deal. And we’ll, we’ll figure out a way to get through and, and, you know, I want to I don’t want to be too Pollyanna, to it’s going to be sunshine tomorrow. But you guys got the Pollyanna reference, which is ridiculous. You’re not Wait, you’re not even near old enough. So it’s my mother’s reference, and I barely get it. So


Nicki Kirlin  36:29

don’t tell anybody our ages. Yeah. We asked you your ages. Yeah, but we don’t talk about ours. Yeah, anyway. No, no,


Dave  36:42

there was one thing that Bryce said in there, that was really good. Like, like, if you have a broken ankle, you know, maybe the one thing that if we could change, just make it as acceptable to talk about as a physical injury and injury. You know, it’s, it’s an actual injury that so many people deal with, but it’s so different to talk about. So if we could change that mentality to similar to an actual injury, like a broken bone, or whatever that is, and have it similar in that light, then I think it would really change things.


Bryce  37:16

But not that we can all be doctors and recognize when our friends have broken bones. But I gotta be honest, I, I know, my partner’s there was a couple months ago, they recognize I wasn’t feeling great. You know, you see someone struggling. Give them a second chance. They’ve had a, you know, I know, my my partners do this all the time. You’re having a bad day. Recognize given something give someone a second strike? Because you don’t know what what they’ve been through. Before before. Right? Yeah. Does that make sense?


Nicki Kirlin  37:48

Yeah. Yeah. cuz everybody has their own story, like we’ve been saying, right, right. Well, we’ve all we all come from a place of all sharing, are all experiencing our own struggles in our own stories. And we forget that, right? We forget that we’re all human at the end of the day, and there’s always this idea that everybody’s perfect, when in reality, that’s the case. Right? And, and that’s how we bond to which is interesting, right? Like, when you form a relationship with somebody, it’s usually like, you know, I had this experience, and you’re like, wow, like, I have that experience, too, or whatever. And that is a part of developing that relationship. So it’s interesting that we, you know, it’s so hard then to share that, when it is, you know, when you would accept it from a close friend. So he started to just simply say, he was just gonna say that, it’s,


Jenna Fortinski

 it’s interesting that you say that, because in family counseling and a couples counseling, we often say that, you know, sometimes we can recognize when a partner or a family member is struggling before they even recognize that they’re struggling. So sometimes we’re just is, you know, so in, you know, the quote, unquote, rat race, that we don’t even realize that, you know, we’re not being efficient, we’re not being effective. And, you know, just things aren’t aren’t hitting the mark. And sometimes our partners or our family members can say, hey, like, I noticed that, you know, there’s something going on for you, you know, how can I support you? And so that’s such a good key way to, to keep, you know, again, open that conversation hold each other accountable, and to let each other know that we’re supporting each other. Right. So it’s, so that’s a really good strategy. So nicely done.


Nicki Kirlin

 Awesome. Okay. So then I have a bit of a, maybe a more personal thoughts impossible. We’ve been sharing a lot of personal In this episode, but maybe a more specific personal question about what has been difficult for each of you. Sort of living through this pandemic in the past year. So what like, what, yeah, what has been the greatest challenge for you, I guess, individually. Dave, do you want to go first?


Dave  39:43

Alright, yeah. Um, so yeah, the last year has been been different for sure. And I’ve been so fortunate because I know I joined 360 right when COVID started, like, at the very beginning of COVID. So came into it. Definitely a weird time. But like I said, we’ve had a very successful year, we’ve grown through the pandemic. So career wise, I’ve been so fortunate to join this great company. But you know, at the same time, it’s been so weird I, I had, I have two boys, now I had our second in the middle of the pandemic, you know, wearing masks in the hospital, it just adds that layer of stress to everything, you know, how, you know, you’re busy at work, there’s all these things going on with outbreaks. And in my wife, school, she’s a teacher, and then a case at my son’s daycare and all these little extra things, when you’re really busy at work, you’re trying to balance, you know, home and work. And it got to me for sure, and I’m kind of, we talked about being vulnerable, I feel embarrassed that it got to me for a while because I was, you know, busy at work and so fortunate that my, my work wasn’t affected. But you’re trying to balance all these things it’s adding stress to, to your young family. And then on top of that, there’s, there’s the, the division of what you should think, like, between, you know, your family and your friends, everybody’s on different spectrums of, you know, who you should see, and, and what you should do and is, is that responsible? And is that safe? Or is that better for society, like, there’s just so many different things that you had to be aware of, and if you saw someone that you weren’t supposed to, you felt bad about it, and there’s just so many layers of, of added stress from from this unknown disease to what you thought, or what your friends and family thought you were doing. And then, you know, just typical balancing, you know, family life and work. Yeah, it added stress for sure, that I had never experienced before. But, you know, we got through it, and, and definitely leaned on on my wife, who’s super strong mentally. Because she tells me that I hold things in all the time, and I need to show my emotions more. But yeah, I just think it was just all those different layers of, of added stress that made it for a challenging year. And and is, is the reason that mental health got exposed even more in this past year and a half. Absolutely. Yeah,


Nicki Kirlin  42:27

I know, you touched on so many things that I think everybody can relate to, right. And we all all had that experience of, especially that last piece around the different ideas of what’s right and what’s wrong, because nobody really knew, right? This is this is this is new for us. like nobody really knows what is right at the end of the day. And we’re all scrambling trying to figure that out.


Jenna Fortinski

 And it’s funny how it was such a isolating experience, but yet everybody was going through the exact same thing. You know, like, that’s funny that we felt isolated in that, but yet everybody like, at every household is having this exact same conversation. So and that’s and that’s really how this podcast came to be. As I had said to Nikki, you know, I feel like I’m having the same conversation. You know, never before in my practice, have I had that, or I’m having the exact same conversation with every client, because everybody is going through the same thing. So that was a platform to starting this podcast is Okay, everybody is actually in the exact same situation. So let’s talk about it. And let’s, you know, get some some ideas out there that people can access easily, and hopefully get an extra support, you know, through a podcast to navigate this because yeah, it’s everybody went through the exact same thing, and nobody had any idea what was right or what was wrong. And there is no such thing as right or wrong. really, truly, right. 


Nicki Kirlin

So Bryce, I wanted to make sure you opportunity to respond to that as well.


Bryce  43:56

No, I said something earlier about the sine curve things being up and down. And that’s really what COVID has been this whole thing it’s been an up we’ve been together and it’s been down we’ve been locked locked in. And that’s really what I’ve struggled with more than ever everything or in any part of me than anything is being is the this is the polarized change is being with everybody and then being alone. And and so you know, it’s just, you know, that’s been the hardest thing to deal with is that constant change and then I’m looking forward to having more of a straight line. normality in life rather than the Yeah, polarized.



Yeah, exactly. Awesome.



Well, I’d


Nicki Kirlin  44:38

like we like we’ve been saying like, life is chaos anyway, just to begin with, right. And then we through this whole journey can find it on top of everything else. And it’s just like, yeah, it’s a recipe for disaster. Yeah. So yeah. So one of the last questions that I have for you then is, you both have touched on this quite a bit already throughout the episode, but I want to just kind of crystallize this and bring it together. Which is around. If like if you could share maybe one thing that you’ve learned from your struggles or your challenges over this past year, what what has been the most important thing that you’ve that you’ve kind of learned from this journey? And that you hope to keep in mind sort of going forward? Bryce, do you want to go first?


Bryce  45:18

I guess I guess your questions, mostly with respect to mental health. And so we’re like really, obviously, is it’s really to have the courage and the strength, which is the hardest thing to do when you need help. Because that’s, that’s really, the hardest thing is to have the courage and strength to reach out. Right. And that’s, that’s really, that, that’s what I, if I can have one thing come from this is to give someone the strength to reach out when they need help. And that’s it. Right. And honestly, it’s great to reach out all the time. 100% and it should be part of everybody’s, everybody’s routine daily is just how you doing. I’m not doing that great. And just, it shouldn’t be like that. I’m not doing that. Great. It should be that easy to say, but but you know, to have the courage to say that every day. And, you know, that’s, that’s what I you know, and the courage to have candor. I’m not doing that. Great. Because, yeah, and so you know, and that’s, that’s, that’s the one thing I would hope for. Yeah. So it’s fantastic. Yeah.


Nicki Kirlin  46:23

Yeah. And it’s beautiful. And it’s and it’s exactly, it’s exactly what we need. Right. We need to shift that perspective. So,


Bryce  46:30

yeah, we’re not alone in that strike. We’re all Yeah,


Nicki Kirlin  46:34

exactly. That’s right. Dave, you What’s one thing that you are hoping to take away from this, that you’ve learned?


Dave  46:41

I’m really similar, being being comfortable and having the courage to speak, but also, just, same thing, just show your emotions a little bit? Because that’s something that, you know, I’ve always known that I haven’t done well, you know, if, although, like to show stress, may hold it all inside. And then it’s just like too much. Just comfortable to show, show emotions. If if you’re, if if you’re not feeling 100% mentally, and you know, find, find ways to release, talk to people. And it’s been tough this last year, because we haven’t seen people face to face and like, I’m not a phone call. guy. I don’t like talking on the phone forever. I like physical connections. So that’s been tough for sure. So just finding a way to, to release. And that might be you know, exercise or whatever it is for you. Just find that that release, but number one being being comfortable to speak and and show your emotions, outwardly or physically. Yeah.


Nicki Kirlin  47:57

No, that’s, that’s perfect. Yeah. Jen, anything that you want to add sort of based on our conversation? 


Jenna Fortinski

Yeah. To touch on what Bryce said first, to get rid of I’m good. Right. When people are saying, like, how are you? I’m good. You know, we really need to, like, get rid of that statement. Right? is I don’t, right?


Bryce  48:15

Yeah. Yeah, I’m good. Yeah. Right. It’s just an easy Oh, that’s like, alright. Yeah. And it’s all it is. Yeah, it’s


Jenna Fortinski  48:23

an empty statement. And you know, and if we could just get rid of that, I think that would help all a lot of people, if we could just say like, that answer is not acceptable. And, you know, just to say, Tell me what’s really going on, you know, it’s Yeah, like, are I’m actually really good. I’m really good. But this I’m good. I’m not having it. I don’t like it. So, I like that. And Dave, I’m with you is, you know, everybody has their their ways of managing, you know, what’s going on with them and to be able to show that and yes, there is a lot of anxiety about people getting back together and not sure how to how to be together. But I think you know, if we go into, you know, this the everything opening up again, businesses opening up, if we go into it thinking that Okay, you know what, we’ve all been struggling. So we’re all in the exact same spot that hopefully these conversations will happen a little bit easier, and we’ll be kinder to each other as we get back into the motions of being together. So that’s my hope are so yeah, yeah.


Nicki Kirlin

 Okay, so the last most important question, yes, is how can people support the mullets for mental health initiative? Tell us how we do that.


Dave  49:37

So first, you can visit our GoFundMe page. There’s, there’s a link to it and I can send that to you or you could just Google 360 mullets for mental health. It should be the first one that pops up. So it just kind of tells you a little bit about our campaign and the team. That’s fundraising for it. You know, cash donations are great. 100% goes to Canadian Mental Health Association. But just you know, like, we’ve talked about getting the word out the awareness, maybe liking our posts on social media or sharing them and saying, you know, these guys are goofballs. Look at their hair. Awesome photos next week when we actually cut it. It doesn’t help cash, just just that awareness and having some fun with it. Just getting the word out. That’s that’s the number one thing in this in this whole campaign. Yeah,


Nicki Kirlin  50:31

that’s fantastic. And I, I forgot to I wanted to ask that question about so what’s the process now for we want to see your mall? It’s so hot, like, what happens? How are we going to see the end product? And when that’s all crafted into this beautiful, artistic creation? How to intimidating? Yeah,


Bryce  50:46

that’s related to your fears. When you think of my let’s pick a fierce,


Dave  50:52

I know, you can follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram. Those are the two social media channels we use. So we’ll post pictures on on both of those. And if you ever come to the office, I think we might frame a couple if they’re frame worthy and and hang them up. We love it. Sorry about that. Actually, we throw it in. So on the global story, I don’t know if you notice there was like a zoom in way too long of Bryce literally curling his hair with one finger. And we were just losing it. So Mark ash and our president What? Lucas still fingers through the curls and blew it up like eight by four and hung it up in the kitchen. So it’s currently


Bryce  51:40

it’s not in the kitchen. It’s right outside my office. So the The worst part, the worst part is it’s great where my head is. So I haven’t told many people this. It’s the the the profile that my head is exactly where my reflection is in the glass. So sometimes I’m confused by either my app by my my Afro, like back of my head over the top, and it actually makes me feel a lot younger. Because you can’t tell.



That’s a bonus.


Bryce  52:12

I know. Mark doesn’t know that he was trying to make fun of me. Oh,


Nicki Kirlin  52:17

that backfired, didn’t it?


Bryce  52:20

Yeah, I know. I know, I’ve actually gained a whole bunch of self confidence because of that poster. More intimidation factor. What that well, so what you guys don’t know is that they the first time we created the website for the company, they put a picture of me from the up and behind. So what you don’t know, I don’t know, global was so kind. I didn’t actually finish watching the global thing because I couldn’t stomach it. Because I was like okay, so anyway, this is I’m segwaying two stories into one but so what happened is my partner’s created a website for a business, from the table standing looking at the monkey’s butt on the top of my head, so they air so I said something about it. So instead of finding another photo, my really great partner, just airbrushed hair on my head so he can tell everybody that he airbrushed hair on my head. I’m pretty sure that’s why he did it. You know, there’s no other photos in all of eternity on all of the world. That couldn’t be better. No, no, we have to use that one, and airbrush hair on your head. So thanks, Mark. That was a really good picture of me. But now, now, now look at Lau look at what’s still there. I think I think they still use it. There’s like still, I think there’s probably 10,000 pictures that have been taken of me since then. But it’s still on the website. At least now. Everybody will go to your airbrush check it out. I don’t that was not the intention. I was actually the intention of this was to shame mark. No.



Thank you guys.


Nicki Kirlin  54:16

This has been such a fantastic conversation. Yeah. And clearly we can you know, base based on conversation, we can tell that there is definitely a Moloch culture. Yeah, your work. Try working on. Yeah. But no, honestly, though, thank you for being thank you both for being courageous and open and honest and vulnerable. You are, you know, you are the key to changing changing the conversation as we go forward. And so we, you know, given our backgrounds this is this is just fantastic to hear that this conversation is happening and that you’re willing to take the charge on that to be leading it. So thank you so much. Yeah, thank you guys. Thank you. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you. Yeah, it’s great.